Sometimes I get a comment so intriguing or interesting that I want to address it in a full post. This is such a case. On the thread, Don’t Drink and Date, visitor Greyface had this comment:
Unless she’s reading the advice on your website as well, and hiding her normal way of doing things in hopes she can reveal the true ‘her’ after the man has fallen in love.
I don’t understand this dance of mutual deception, wherein you advise people to edit themselves in a profile so as to appear more attractive to prospective dates. That path only leads to false expectations. There are plenty of women out there who are comfortable with the ubergeek man. I happen to be one of them, and the man I met on OkCupid didn’t edit his profile to make himself more date friendly.
The inherent problem is that you’re telling men to change themselves for the women they’re trying to meet, without acknowledging that the woman who will reject a man for his interests is probably not the ideal mate for said man.
Are the men following your advice being true to themselves, or are they forgetting that they aren’t the cookie cutter man, and should be looking for a woman who respects, loves, and eagerly embraces their differences?
Here are my thoughts…
Don’t Change Yourself, Change Your Look
I have never promoted changing yourself to be more attractive to a potential date. I agree that it is a horrible way to start a relationship.
However, many perfectly good geek men are awful writers. While I do edit their profiles, it is to show their best side. I’ll never turn a guy who occasionally makes his own fried chicken into Emeril Lagasse. I simply use my skills as a writer to make your best side shine so you have an easier time finding dates.
Here’s another example of looking better thanks to someone else’s skills: Haircuts.
I can’t cut my own hair. In fact, I failed Cutting in Kindergarten. I know what I want my hair to look like, but if I had to do it, it would be awful and lopsided. (Or, more likely, I would just let it grow super-long to avoid cutting it!) Thus, I hire someone with hair-cutting skills and compensate them for their time and expertise. It’s my best side forward thanks to someone else’s expertise.
Do I look better? Yes. Am I promoting a lie because I look different than I would if I did everything myself? Nope. Is it all that simple? No, it’s not. It’s definitely not an apples to apples match – more like oranges to tangerines.
Online vs. Traditional Meetings: Let’s See Your Iceberg
Before internet dating, people met through shared activities. They worked together, went to church together, golfed together. If they didn’t meet directly, they met through shared friends or acquaintances.
Potential matches started out from square one, knowing very little about each other. For example, my parents met while working in the same hospital. My mother worked in purchasing, deciphering doctors’ handwriting and buying their supplies. My father was a draftsman working on a construction project in the building. He would come into her office to use the copy machine.
In traditional dating, you start with the tip of the iceberg. Because you’re interested in each other, you try to show the best side of your iceberg. As you date them, you begin to see more and more of that iceberg. If it’s not your kind of frozen floating mass, you move on to another one.
Let’s move up into the current scene.
If there were online dating profiles that contained exactly what my parents knew about each other when they first began interacting, how likely do you think it would be that they would have gotten together?
Dad:
“I’m very quiet and you’ll have to talk to me first and make the first move, otherwise I stick to myself. I work as a draftsman designing upgrades to a hospital.“
~
Mom:
“I work in purchasing at the hospital. Doctors have really bad handwriting – can you read this? I’m alone in my office and like visitors.“
~
If that was “all she wrote“, most of us would move on unless they felt a strong physical attraction to the person in the picture. Ladies can attest that we get lots of introduction emails that tell us how pretty/sexy/beautiful/cute we are. We can also attest that some of the greatest guys do not have chiseled good looks. How do we decide which of these suitors to communicate with? We read their profiles!
In online dating, you’re expected – nearly required! - to show a lot more of your iceberg than just the tip if you want to be in the running for the affections of the ladies. If you’re going to be competitive with the other icebergs in the sea, you want to show your best side. If you’re not sure how to express that in words, then you work with someone – me! – to help you do that.
Have my parents eventually discovered things about each other that they don’t like? For sure! In every relationship, there has to be some amount of compromise. Even the best of friends argue every so often. What is important is that they get along at other levels and can communicate and resolve their problems.
At that point, we move into the same playing field as traditional dating – the real world. You’re flying solo. As she gets to know you in real life, if she digs your ‘berg, you can have Happy Feet! If not, it’s time to shuffle back to square one.
About e
I’ve been lurking for a little while now, and I think I have a pretty good handle on your advice. At the same time, though, I do understand the perspective of not wanting to put your best side foreword. It seems dishonest to hide things which might scare someone away while highlighting those which would attract them. For a long time, I refused to look for a mate because I thought it was dishonorable. Ultimately, however, I realized that this logic was flawed.
I don’t know how many times I’ve seen you stress honesty. You always say that shattered expectations prevent future dates. I am a firm believer in honesty and make it a policy to never lie. I am not perfect, but I try hard and am largely successful. Still, I could implement things you advise because you guide people away from falsehoods. I don’t think truth is actually what this poster was getting at, however. We’re talking about honesty which is related, but the distinction is important.
So, the question becomes, “what is dishonest?” The simple answer is that any action designed to make someone believe something a known falsehood is dishonest.
The conclusion that I came to was that it was dishonest to NOT reveal that you’re willing to put some work into the relationship. If my attitude will be that I am who I am and she will just have to fit into my life wherever she can, then it would be dishonest to put up a profile indicating that I will work on a relationship. If, on the other hand, I’m willing to make changes to be more attractive to a woman I’m in a relationship with, refocus my leisure time to do more things that we’re both interested in, and make efforts to have a relationship, then it’s reasonable to present a side which indicates that. It’s subtext which works well both explicitly and implicitly. I’m willing to work on this profile, so I’m willing to invest some time in finding/courting a mate.
For example: I currently role-play 2-3 days a week. It’s the overwhelming majority of my leisure activity. I’d like to get out more, however, particularly with a girlfriend. I have a fair degree of proficiency in hiking, camping, and other outdoor activities. A passage like, “I have spent a lot of time in the mountains, but haven’t gotten out so much recently. Would you like to join in my re-exploration of the natural world?” seems like something you’d advocate in this case. This is in no way dishonest or misleading despite the fact that it does more than just show what I am right now. A profile which strongly indicates my desire to spend time outdoors is not dishonest because it shows a picture of what a relationship MAY be like.
In short (too late, I know), a major purpose of a profile is to build accurate expectations in an appealing way. Many people are bad at this, and need help. A profile which inadvertently plays up medical issues doesn’t help anybody if the writer merely meant to indicate that he had some interest in his own health. Rebuilding a profile to give an accurate impression in a pleasing way is no more dishonest than having a friend give advice on what to wear on the first date, and topics to avoid in conversation. Trying to look appealing creates the expectation that you will continue to try to have a successful relationship, and that is the real message sent by a profile which shows that effort has been spent on it.
Excellent article e! Being a guy that doesn’t know how to write anything else than technical documents, I know the help you’d bring me if I ever wanted to date online.
And reading your makeovers, I don’t think that you ‘transform’ the people that come to you for help, you just help them show what’s best in them.
Hyb’
First, kudos to you for responding in a manner that isn’t “ur dum, im rite, ur rong, lololol, kekekeke, i has a website so i must be rite!!!11!one!!!uno!”
I still disagree with how you do things, or rather, the attitude that it encourages. Quite frankly, I don’t want to read what -you- create from a person’s profile. I want to read what they have to say, what their perceptions of themselves include. I understand the catch-22, though. Many people can’t improve without feedback, and without improvement, no one notices/is enticed enough to give feedback.
In my opinion, and from personal experience doing the same thing to a male geek friend’s profile, you can lead a geek to cool, but you can’t make him drink. After my update, he read it, said, “Yeah, that’s me, but with a better and more attractive means of saying it!” and went out and got a few dates. The problem? He’s -still- that guy that is obsessed with Dr. Who, would go gay for Joss Whedon, and truly thinks his Sean Connery impersonation is dead on (it so isn’t). Chicks who read his profile which admitted interest in those things but saved the obsession for a later date met him and backpedaled like crazy. The way his profile was written before the makeover really is him. Putting a more attractive spin on something that isn’t attractive (to many women) is the deceptive part. At the end of the day, if a man can’t write his own profile, can’t communicate himself in written form, and can’t make those social concessions on his own, he probably isn’t going to be able to magically do that in person. He’s a geek, and there is a geek waiting for him that understands, because she has a poster of Jean Luc Picard over her bed.
Deception by omission is still deception. I think, truly, that the better advice is to be patient, understand that you aren’t Ken and Barbie isn’t anatomically correct anyways. Screw it, -be- Boris, because Natasha is out there waiting for you.
Again, thanks for making this a dialogue and not, y’know… a flame war.
@ Khorboth – I agree that there are things that we just *do* differently when we have someone else to consider other than ourselves. That’s a really good point!
@ Hybban – I’d like to see your tech specs.
@ Greyface – One of the things I abhor about the internet are flame wars, and I simply won’t tolerate or participate in them, no matter what the topic. Blech. I am also glad this has not turned into one.
Of course, I also had the choice to not approve your orginal comment, but I felt it was a valid point worth discussing, so here we are!
I still stand by the fact that I am making people more shiny on the outside, not different on the inside. Most of the time a guy pays for a first date anyway, so if she’s turned off by the rest of his iceberg, all she’s wasted is time.
One last thought – what about the girl who puts on a little extra makeup than usual or does her hair up special for a date if she normally doesn’t do it every day? Is she deceiving her date? (I guess the same goes for push-up bras!!)
All of this is *precisely* why I don’t date, online or otherwise. If I am destined to have another woman in my life — well, let’s just say I will leave it to the will of the Living Force.
I like what you do for people, e. It reminds me of “Hitch” and I absolutely love that movie. If I was that good, I would love to have a business like that. Those people were happier because of him. And, I hope because of you.
I understand Greyface’s comments and they can be true if a person is deceptive in the way they talked to prospective dates. If I used your services, I would put a link to your site on the profile, so the ladies would know that I had help.
my 2 cents. Sometimes, 2 sides of an argument are *both* true.
Another thing this commenter should think of about is applying for a job. Very similar. People who look like they can’t take care of themselves will never be hired, the same triming/cleaning that you suggest to profiles. You’re supposed to go get nicer clothes than you where daily, and usually dress especially nice the first few days.
Why would anyone ever limit the number of opportunities to potentially meet someone and fall in love?
There are two schools of thought on dating. One is that you should date as much as possible, thus increasing your chances of meeting someone you really get along with. The second is that you wait for just the right person and hope that you haven’t wasted all that time waiting. I’m of the school that agrees with the first statement. I see too many of my friends sitting on the sidelines waiting for someone to come along and fall madly in love with them. When they finally get a date they obsess over it and end up chasing the poor girl away. It’s not a matter of their lousy personality, it’s a matter of them not being experienced with those boy/girl social interactions. Date often. Enjoy it. You don’t have to find the one person you’re destined to spend eternity with on the first date but you should have as many first dates as it takes to meet someone you really dig and who digs you as well. Putting a crappy painting in a beautiful frame won’t make the painting more attractive but it may allow someone to see the painting in a new and interesting way.
@ Mhoram – I think it’s definitely an “agree to disagree” kind of situation!
@ Mystrich – That too!! I know a lot of people who can dress up and act really nice for an interview and then once they get the job, totally ruin it for themselves with their real work ethic (or lack thereof).
@ sheadunne – I’m of the 1st school as well. I think 1st dates are about meeting a new person, not necessarily meeting a new romantic partner. If you end up clicking with the person, cool. If not, it was nice meeting you, seeya later, bye.
It’s all about getting out there and meeting people – which is what my profiles help people do… get a leg up in getting out there in the world!
Actually, “dressing up” is a real good analogy for putting polish on a profile. After all, on the first date I’m not going to wear jeans and a gamer t-shirt, I’m going to dress nice to make a better impression. Is that dishonest if at home I like to wear jeans and a t-shirt? Dressing up won’t change my face or hide the fact that I don’t have six-pack abs.
In short, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with polishing a profile as long as it remains honest.
Ozs last blog post..Build your own round house
“In online dating, you’re expected – nearly required! – to show a lot more of your iceberg than just the tip if you want to be in the running for the affections of the ladies. If you’re going to be competitive with the other icebergs in the sea, you want to show your best side.”
I strongly disagree with this, though perhaps I know nothing about the dating scene.
Your are NOT in competition with others for affection. I’d almost say that’s what leads to those meat market type dating sites.
If your in competition with other males, then she’s just interested in whoevers better at competition. You deserve a woman better than that.
No, for a spiritual connection, there is no competition, only clarity Vs noise. All the other mens posts and links are a big bunch of noise that blocks the special woman hearing your signal. It’s not about competition, it’s about clarity – who hasn’t seen a movie where the guys calling out to the woman in a crowd, but she can’t hear him!? If only he had a loud hailer! Make sure you have a loud hailer or other techniques to cut through all the noise and make sure that special one hears you. She’s listening, but there’s so much noise!
So I disagree.
@ Callan – Welcome to the comments! Actually, I think we agree rather than disagree.
I can understand your dislike of the word “competition”, but what you describe about cutting through the noise is exactly what I am talking about – having the best profile so she “hears” you through the crowd.
If your “hailer” is weak, then a man with a stronger one will win out over you because she hears him better. You may be the better man for her, but she’d never know that.
What do you think?